This issue:  Rumblings/gRumblings; Events/Mtgs to Feb 6th with the Rally for Olympic Sustainability (Eagleridge Bluffs) announcement; Jan 24th Ccl NOTES (Pesticide Ban; Arts/Culture Strategy $80K/$500K; uncovenanted trees; wanna see for more than a week the Ten-Year Capital Plan yet to be released???; public can speak even if Public Mtg closed! and now discover an extra $80K found to include in operating budget, is there more and do we have choices? but don't use the S-word -- Supplementals); Quotations; Haiku

=  Plans continuing for Heritage Week Feb 21 - 27;  look forward to the free snowshoe and barbecue on Cypress as well as the Heritage Fayre at Park Royal South Sunday (27th) -- if you're a non-profit volunteer group, call 922 4400 if you'd like a table to show the community what you do, how your group contributes to WV and invite more to join.  Volunteerism is a  precious/asset/cornerstone of Canada's heritage/character richness........

=  Reports on the Olympic Cmte's cmnty workshop and the Arts & Culture Strategy are now available.

=  Ask for the latest news on plans for Ambleside Park.

=  Let staff and Ccl know whether you prefer demolition/buildinganew or restoration/renovation of Gleneagles Clubhouse.

=  Eagleridge Bluffs info at www.eagleridge.ca or www.eagleridge.com and Rally Feb 1st.

=  Planned upgrades for 15th Street include: removal and replacement of existing pavement; new sidewalks, curb and gutter; pedestrian upgrades, including wheelchair ramps and pullouts; bus stop upgrades; for info, call Engineering at 604-925-7026 or email:  gwatt@westvancouver.ca

=  DWV starting plans for information technology without reinstating the ITAC?

............   gRUMBLINGS    ............

Look at the meetings on Wednesday and Thursday below.  There used not to be events on at the same time so that councillors and residents cd attend events/mtgs they find of interest and be informed on topics, some basic to participating meaningfully in municipal governance and plans.

Then there are cmte mtgs that don't even have the pitifully minimal 48 hours' notice that's a 'guideline'.  Even all the members weren't notified for the last Sports & Rec Facilities Planning Cmte so that just the chair turned up; requiring frantic phone calls.  Mtg cd be held b/c it only required one summoned to make quorum, ie two.  But then, those mtgs are held at the 'call of the chair' and they're doing whatever they can so construction can start on the Central/Civic Cmnty Centre this year before the election in November.........

~ 5 - 7pm ~ Planning AC in Ccl Chamber: Wetmore and Evelyn Drive

~ 5:30 - 7pm ~ Finance AC at Hall has updates on: the EAC and Sports/Rec Fac Planning Cmtes; the workgroups on Cmnty Benefit Review, Water Conservation, and Hollyburn Lease; Dir/Finance's current issues; also items on Ccl referrals and 2010 Cmnty Cmte

~ 6 - 8pm ~ Public Mtg on 15th Street Road Reconstruction Project at Pauline Johnson School, 1150 - 22nd (Susan Gratien) TBC

~ 7 - 9pm ~ Library Bd (Peters Room in Library):  *** MOVED from JAN 19th ***

 ~ 7pm ~ WV Historical Society general mtg at Srs' Centre

Guest Speaker: Dr. Tom Calder.  One of his major contributions to the community has been the creation of the West Vancouver Adult Pops Band.

~ 4 - 6pm ~ Police Bd in the Ch of Commerce Boardroom

~ 4:30 - 6:30pm ~ Design AC in Ccl Chamber - CANCELLED

~ 5 - 7pm ~ NSACDI, CNV M Hall.

~ 7 - 9pm ~ Talk at the Library:

Charles Clapham, author of Great Walks of Vancouver, will use slides and maps to show how to walk in easy stages through the Lower Mainland.

Free Admission, including access to the Health and Conditioning Centre

11 am - 12:30: pm Relax, Refresh, Rejuvenate - Enjoy a selection of spa and fitness features

1 - 3 pm:  Complimentary Leisure Swim - Fun for people of all ages

Register for a complimentary workshop by calling 604-925-7210 or visit westvancouver.ca

Australian Brandenburgs:  Paul Dyer and Lucinda Moon, director and concertmaster of the Australian Brandenburg Orchestra, return after their triumphant performance last season to perform as soloists in Bach's 5th Brandenburg Concerto, B-minor Suite, and Double Violin Concerto.

There may be the often Arts and Culture Strategy mtg at 8:30 (or work over?); may be announced closer to mtg date

however

NO COUNCIL MTG!

~ 11am ~ Coalition to save Eagleridge Bluffs: A Public Rally for Olympic Sustainability [See just below]

~ 3:30 - 5:30 ~ YAC at Hall

~ 3 - 8pm ~  Water Metering Open House in Ccl Chamber

     The purpose of this protest is to make clear to the IOC that the citizens of British Columbia are demanding that VANOC and the B.C. Government be held to their Olympic promise of sustainability.  Regarding the Sea To Sky Highway upgrade, a  tunnel around Eagleridge Bluffs and the wetlands is the only sustainable choice.  An overland highway is not.

     We invite you to visit our webpage www.eagleridgebluffs.com and we welcome any questions or requests for further information.  Please direct them to;

Dennis Perry, President   604-921-6556                       denper@shaw.ca

 

     Stonewalled means the province will not meet with the various levels of government to figure this out. Time and money (the gap is very narrow) are only an excuse. We don't really know why.

     The only way we can change the government's mind is through public pressure and Feb 1 is a unique opportunity given the IOC presence.

ZONING AMENDMENT BYLAW / DEVELOPMENT PERMIT APPLICATION

Applicant:  Crescentview Investments Ltd.

Affected Lands:  605 Clyde Avenue

Purpose:  To provide for development of a four-storey 17-unit seniors-oriented strata apartment building, with 23 underground parking spaces, accessed from an opened and improved 6th Street right-of-way.

Proposed Zoning Bylaw Amendment:  To rezone the property from C.R.1 (Commercial Restricted Zone 1) to an amended R.M. 8 (Multiple Dwelling Zone 8)

SJN answered questions Ccl raised previously; report from Stephen Mikicich (Planning Dept), then:

1.9FAR for adjacent Amica; legal structure; $100K for undergrounding

Mr Manji, President, before speaking said the CEO, Mr Landucci, the other company (Crescentview), spoke last week:

we were optimistic wrt demand; pre-leasing usu 6 - 8 mos prior

78 independent units and 34 assisted living; expectation that 25 to 30% will be pre-leased (prior) to opening

we're three months away from opening and 55% of the indep stes already spoken for

shows demand/need

605, similar component, but cater to younger senior (average 70 - 75) whereas rental av age is 80 yrs old

[met with staff; proceeded on that basis]

had to assess economics again; this is smaller than other projects we've done

fine line we're treading

these are 17 suites, smaller than others we've done

confident will provide additional benefit to age we're catering to

VD:  some questions to Head of Planning

more interested in process getting to 1.75

what FSR did Millennium get for Park Royal Hotel site?

SJN: for combined rental and main site, 1.6

VD: and this combined is 1.89?

SJN: main Amica site is 1.9FAR and this is 1.75 so this wd bring it down to 1.83

VD: remind me of the cmnty benefits Millennium provided on their project

how many rental units?

SJN: can't remember, perhaps 12

other cmnty benefits provision for bridge across creek

provision of land on riverfront, common land

built into it was also the cost of relocating 6th St and undergrounding of wiring on 6th and Clyde

VD: based on fact Millennium put in quite a few benefits, how do those cmnty benefits compare?

was higher, bonusing for rental

it was the analysis of the physical impact of the site and impact on design considerations, adjacent to creek, that 1.6 ie physical led to reduction related to physical

this was adjoin to bldg five storeys; approval by PAC and DAC and staff believes design accommodates site

VD: south side of Clyde, and issue of density of how you get from 1 to 1.75 and didn't stop anywhere in between

curious at Millennium stopped at 1.6, cut back, but Amica is sitting there at 1.75, putting underground wiring, spending $90K, whereas Millennium is building 12 rental units that will be there forever

if we see another of these projects going forward, will we see you contemplate stopping at 1.5?

SJN: we've never reviewed based decision on density [alone?] in terms of cmnty benefit; we see if it meets land use and acceptable design

change in zoning taking place and what additional benefits

when this started off at 17 strata units (as sole benefit); thought it shd be considered further, and went to Planning Cmte

through negotiations we were able to secure underground services and owner indicated they cd fit that within their budget

VD: big point is they will be operated as a single facility

how does that work with a strata bldg?

we had restrictions on one at 22nd, age limit, sell at 85% of market value, etc and after about five or ten years, they came back and said can't make a go, need younger people, take those restrictions off, and Ccl did

SJN: don't believe age taken off; believe coincidental with provincial; believe it was 55 and over; we did take off that they had to sell their units at a percentage of the market value

unimplementable

another provision re manager's suites, again taken off

in this case, our legal said a restrictive covenant; applicant said if Ccl wants more complicated, 18-unit strata okay as well

VD: suggest we use a narrow method; doesn't actually cover operation; how can we enforce part that's have to provide services and have to buy them

SJN: our lawyers indicate it can be done by restrictive covenant

if Ccl wishes to proceed, go to second and third reading and not final adoption until lawyers provide the covenants, ie bldg A cannot until B, etc; this cannot occur until A or B, etc.

Agenda Amended adding 7.x etc; and withdrawing 4.2 Fees and Charges

3.         ADOPTION OF MINUTES

3.1       Public Hearing/Public Meeting Minutes, January 10, 2005

3.2       Council Meeting Minutes, January 10, 2005

4.         REPORTS

4.1       Amendment to Business Licence Bylaw - Odours/Noise (Business Licence Bylaw) Amendment Bylaw

RECOMMENDED:  THAT the report dated January 13, 2005 from the Manager of Bylaw & Licencing [sic] Services re Amendment ... be received for information.

SSch (MClk): this is an interim report; staff are still compiling add'l info; proposed this for interim info and to be brought back mid-Feb when info compiled

Ken Farquharson: it's a disappointment to see this item carried forward

We [gave addresses] first approached Ccl in September, have provided direct evidence from expert

we wish to get the right result but wd be happier if sooner b/c we are suffering

day by day and week by week as you go through your deliberations

Ali Bakhtiari: Happy New Year to everyone

took legal assistance; talked to GVRD re air quality

they have a bylaw existing and even bylaw enforcement for WV area, restaurants not part of that and if complaint have mediation

perhaps b/c something from a restaurant is nothing that will injure you

they said that WV is under GVRD jurisdiction

talked to Health Dept of Noise, and it's within Noise Bylaw

if there's an issue, ready from Day One, if any mediation

if there's any problem there was always an open door

that's our standing at this point

this is starting to put pressure on my business

Sop: when we went to your establishment and saw the steel hood and venting, have you made any efforts to do anything to the shroud on the roof wrt noise

AB: was open to Biz and Lic of the City; owners of commercial units and residents mtg to see, but waiting for an answer from the residents, didn't come to mtg

Sop: made any prep to put in a device to quell the odour?

AB: a few different solutions; once estimate is $60K, every six weeks charge to clean filter

at this point too expensive

back to odour, if you go around the block, no odour

must realize that when you prepare the food is when you have the odour; we prepare food for two hours, the rest of the day serving, under warmers; so only about two hours

even a residential unit wd have two hours

Sop: do you prepare food for others, after midnight?

AB: just for our own restaurant

been four or five months we haven't had 24 hours operation

Sop: if you're preparing and a resident opens a window, that's okay if they can or cannot open a window in the evening

AB: this is a public business

we are not there to create problems

if odour bothering the residences, our fan is situated on the fourth floor; if the wind some way will affect some of the residents

other restaurants [in nbrhd] are in first or second floor; like a tunnel

maybe the odour everyone is complaining about is not ours; ours on fourth floor so shdn't go into that alleyway

Sop: if push comes to shove wd you put in a scrubber?

AB: we suggested that the first day

unbelievable they didn't go for that

owner of commercial bldg, me, some strata owners to pay share

share wd be minimal

costs are not enormous to put a wall around

VD: when you report back (Planning), cd you include hours of operation

understand this restaurant is operating long hours

curious as to how long restaurants working, door open or shut? all night? or? if I cd find that out

and whether staff is actually doing wrt this breach of bylaw

RB, DoAS: staff are evaluating the noise situation and will be taking further tests to verify readings

VD: and if breach, whose responsibility to cure?

RB: operator and owner of establishment

JF: important we resolve this bylaw as soon as possible for the sake of all affected

PASSED

Designated Presenter:  Director of Administrative Services (to be circulated in the Supplemental Agenda)

WITHDRAWN

RECOMMENDED: THAT

1.         Pesticide Use Control Bylaw No. 4377, 2004 be introduced and read a first and second time.

2.         Council direct the Parks and Community Services Division to draft a formal "Pesticide Use" Policy with respect to internal operations within both Departments.

3.         Council direct staff to prepare a public education and awareness strategy and budget.

Doug Leavers: draft bylaw; sent out for further review by public.

Steve Jenkins: slides to introduce the proposed bylaw

feedback over seven months

implementation date January 2006

some products will be permitted (Schedule A)

can apply for exemptions (eg our golf course)

date consistent with other municipalities, eg New Westminster and Port Moody

proposed bylaw here for you, know education and awareness needed

partnership - North Shore and Vancouver; benefits

VD: apart from homeowners, who are the biggest users of pesticides?

SJ: M does on both golf courses and nursery, anyone in lawn care biz, et Lawn Bowling

Club, Capilano Golf Course

VD: do I read exemptions for Klee Wyck and Capilano Golf Course (CGC)?

Klee Wyck is our own operation only two reasons, outbreak of fungus and weeds

everything wd be internal and the bylaw exempts inhouse/internal uses

VD: not a gardener but roses?

SJ: I'm not a horticulturalist but understand there are other ways of controlling (re roses)

VD: definition of cosmetic but that word not in bylaw

is that not an outright ban of pesticides?

SJ: if you look at some of the permitted pesticides

sticky tape, some things to control a specific pest

the focus of this bylaw is for the use on lawns

over 40% of those who said they used pesticides said they used them on the lawn

focused on lawn care

VD: word cosmetic is redundant, it's a ban on pesticides

SJ: not used in bylaw

VD: big issue is lawns, what does Capilano Golf Course use?

SJ: spot applications of fungicides only and through working with us, they've removed some trees and reduced usage

they spot use, where fungus likely

VD: isn't that what a homeowner does?

SJ: the difference between a spot and broad spectrum, actually quite different

VD: if you're going to ban it shd be everyone, us and the Golf Course

JF: exemption for a specified time and condition or blank?

SJ: we're working on that

wd be a one-year exemption

have to present an IPM plan to the province; we'd receive that

JF: impact this wd have on landscaping businesses, gardening stores, etc., any implications for them

give us some idea of feedback

SJ: from lawncare companies, this is not going to be a fun time and others have said this is great

already some companies already ahead of this paradigm shift, a biz opportunity

went to a website a couple of years ago had weed and feed and now it has alternatives

everyone understands we're going down this road

people seeing it as a biz opportunity

thinking of having a registration list, with organic ones

JF: wd licensing know not [using] pesticides?

SJ: yes

JC: at end has results of cmte

says a consensus was taken, an IPM approach

the Ccl report had not been fully complied with

says IPM based on premise with strong education, may not need to have bylaw

ability of staff to enforce

July 3 2002 mtg, a couple of speakers [at PEAC] dealt with organic soil management, one does consulting for the Ms

Michael Dean says ban and educate, wd be crazy to ban outright

why ignored cmte?

SJ: this is a new advisory cmte; the IPM rule still advocates the use of pesticides and our own staff investigations into this and looking at the alternatives and looking at other Ms, not best; yes we have listened to cmte, but other notes they say a bylaw cd be a catalyst for education

they do acknowledge some benefits to a bylaw

tried to balance PEAC with what residents thought, from ban everything to ban nothing

this is what staff is recommending at this time

JC: worthy of consideration result in bylaw being read first and second time

Mayor asked for public input

Iain Forsythe, dentist and PEAC mbr: want to reply to a comment Steve made

he was somewhat incorrect; the PEAC has consistently recommended the IPM, 2002, 2003, and 2004

the majority of WV residents are intelligent and will comply without the bylaw

people are living longer and healthier than ever before

past 20? years we've been using pesticides and been living longer

cancer rates, allergies, etc. every conceivable condition except TB, syphilis, etc -- this started in a magazine [cited it]

propaganda (in past) re fluoride -- be careful, Mr Mayor, what you put on your toothbrush

this sort of propaganda leads to in my opinion a culture of anxiety

scare tactics

recently DWV pamphlet put out says M uses no pesticides in open space parks except on golf courses and nursery.....

Golfers like us then are a sort of 'unterMenschen'

Saw Arnold Palmer, must have played on courses all his life, and at 75, he looked great

this report mentions M also used EcoClear, same natural ingredients as vinegar and lemon juice

vinegar is simply acetic acid, but at a hell of a price $12.99 per litre vs $2.99 per litre for common vinegar in local store

what to know why when you and I get vinegar on our fish and chips but if we put on lawn, weeds get treated with organic vinegar; I think there's an element of lunacy

Not only that EcoClear has a govt warning about its dangers; kind of strange the govt of Canada doesn't insist Roundup have a warning in its concentrated form

be willing to discuss some of these........ vast majority don't really work, only work partially

people who are going to make money are those who make these things

the ones that work are those that science

believe we've been looked after very well by our govt, our universities, our physicians

we'll enjoy a good standard of life and will be for many years to come

Hugh Hamilton:  resident for over 40 years

wrt Section 3.1, the discussion element, particularly wording "restrict re cosmetic"

is it not possible to restrict without the necessity of a bylaw

Michelle Gibson: 3995 Bayridge, want to respond briefly to the first speaker

talked about basic intelligence will provide a fail/safe mechanism for voluntary compliance

cd make same argument re seatbelts, makes common sense but ended up making a law; common sense does not always prevail

Psych 100 will tell you if bylaw not there, people will break it

we are now at a time that this is a sensible course of action

wrt getting everything from allergies to cancer, but I wd argue that bylaws like this have helped

physicians years ago didn't use soap and lost babies, took time for this to be proven

that's why we're living longer

Arnold Palmer may be looking good

but you cd also say there are a lot of people who smoke and don't get cancer

are we going to look at the few or the many?

govt of Canada and scientists -- but again they said it was all right for pregnant women to smoke or drink

they like the rest of us, learning curve

urge you to err on the side of caution

...must take direct steps

why not if alternatives?  why are we even hesitating?

{some applause}

Sop made motions.

this is not a bylaw to ban the sale of pesticides

since Supreme Court action in Hudson Quebec, how many Ms have banned, looked at banning

remember when we first tried to bring this, a couple of years ago, not even a look

these issues not just last three or four years, been going on on private and not private lands

what gives catalyst to move forward

recognizing that pesticides may be harmful to humans and animals

catalyst is this bylaw

many across nation have made this statement

we took 25 years to discuss poison or toxin like Diazanon; no longer available

JF: I too will be supporting the motion, in favour of the bylaw

a couple of issues, and some rationale; many years ago when I was just a child watching Ed Sullivan

Comedian, Phyllis Diller flippant remark, talking about housework, apparently they won't kill you, but why take that chance?

{laughter}

don't mean to reduce to flippancy

govt is telling me won't kill me

love this cmnty, little creatures, streams

if we'd put all these pesticides with this runoff -- why take that chance?

what effect on all these?

haven't heard one good reason, good reasons to be skeptical; and lots of what to gain

I have godchildren and pets and cdn't put any on my lawn thinking of them rolling around

important issue for WV and people will be happy to comply with the bylaw

just shdn't be taking the chance

[some applause]

G-J: have supported this all along

spent some time at the booth at Ambleside in the summer

people came up and said, I didn't realize

one woman said to me I decided to look to see what our lawn guy was putting on our lawn, four jars of stuff full of toxic chemicals! so I fired him

felt fully responsible

bylaw is not a threat, it's a statement of our preferred future

actually following the lead of the cmnty, 78% approved

natural gardens tour this year had 700

raised awarenenss

health of ourselves and our environment

as a result of our work, DNV and CNV asked this bylaw be forwarded to them so hope will be North Shore-wide

even Vancouver looking at it, ban starts Jan first 2006, and partnering with us in major public edu and awareness prog

Cap Golf Course feel driven to reduce, by membership

removal of trees, reducing use of fungicide

as far as scare tactics go, don't think that's what anyone is trying to do

27 dead birds at Ambleside; pesticides are supposed to be applied with water, wasn't, froze, and they died of Diazanon poisoning, that's a risk people have to know they're taking

really good shape when being let by residents

[applause]

VD: I'm one of the guys with poor education

interested one lady stopped; one lady says once knows, stops

we do know, smoking kills but I don't remember a ban on private property

we know it kills and no one trying to do that

it is true that we have learnt that seatbelts do work; and if hadn't been for some govt regulation wdn't have had seatbelts

the learning is the important point

even staff will tell you there is no intent of enforcing the bylaw

you will have to catch your nbr, phone, and by the time he gets there ---

there will be no enforcement

the problem is the bylaw

will make us feel good

but education is

if you have bylaw and no intention to enforce, staff will tell you no budget; that's why the PEAC cmte doesn't really support the bylaw; say it might help in giving some backup; education, IPM

nothing in this motion wrt IPM; presume we're not doing that any longer and told if you don't do that bylaw won't work either

Cmte [cites parts of the report and motion]; what's not in motion is how we're going to educate the public; see it tonight, on TV, maybe in NShNews; then --

someone said bulk of problem lawns

someone suggested we shd actually ban use of pesticide on lawns but not on roses, and I'm showing my total ignorance wrt gardens

[applause]

one thing about being on Ccl, can't be an expert on everything

staff have been using it on golf course b/c public want to play on green grass

why are we not passing a bylaw on the big issues, on grass?

that's something you can see

sits there for a while, bylaw officer can come by and check

if you look at the bottle, and I've sprayed a bit, it says put a mask on and spray downwind, shd be some indication

says budget but don't see a big one

taken with lady and Cclr F saying why take a risk

whereas now brought around, don't think it'll work

not many nbrs will be looking over garden and snitching

we already have enough warfare in WV between nbrs; this is one more weapon to use against your nbrs; edu is where we will cure the health of our children, our nbrs, and ourselves

next week we shd stop people smoking in their houses

RD: Cclr Durman put it well, described use of pesticides: put on a mask and spray downwind; problem is wind doesn't carry it away

but they get into water and air; affects food chain

lot of evidence from fish to eagles....pesticides doing damage

not Arnold Palmer, but maybe his grandchildren at risk

most want to live in cities, urban life

big cities becoming very large, people in cities have to have regulation to protect air, soil, water; if didn't things wd be worse than they are

true WV very, very small, but feds aren't doing their job in the regulation of pesticides; initiative has to come from local; we have and now others

from our little, lots of good come of it

you can have a lovely garden without pesticides

I admit our lawn not green but some wildflowers on it, beautiful in spring

don't like it, can mow it more often

nothing perfect about a weed and green lawn

education probably the best/most effective way -- this bylaw calls for education

not going to apply it till 2006

bylaw reasonably put, balanced, moderate, gives time, it's the right way to go

JC: wonder if you have an inclination to split this; no problem with 2 and 3 but problem with bylaw; agree with Cclr Durman, extremely difficult, impossible to enforce

enough work for bylaw officers now, just chalking tires, and not doing as well as they shd either

if we really wanted to attack this situation, wd be talking about the other 99% of pesticide use, the agriculture industry....then Whole Foods wdn't get $5 for an apple

that's where 99% used, not on lawns

Mayor: can this be split?

SSch: can be done

Mayor: what's the wish of Ccl?

JC: vote on 1, then 2 and 3 separately

G-J: 2 and 3 come from 1

Mayor: not much wish to split

JC: then I'll reluctantly vote for

Sop: Ottawa has been at it for three years now

compliance has been phenomenal

but need the stimuli, formal application of a law

I don't think enforcement will be a problem at all; as many of us have felt, this is not good for us and our animals

[8:40 PASSED and applause]

VD: I'd like to propose another motion

wd like to have a copy of the bylaw sent to every resident in WV

if educate, let's start

the whole thing is to gain input; why not start it now

starts education process, send it to every resident

what's the harm?

G-J: don't disagree but we're at second reading

VD: we don't want public input?

G-J: had it for three years

Sop: reasonable for staff to prepare a public education program

logical step rather than hit and miss

DL: we'd be working with North Shore Recycling

at mtg will be creating a locally-based program: website, flyers

Mayor: back within a month?

VD: I am saying, we've taken a bylaw where we expect public input

why is everyone afraid of sending it to everyone

I hear some afraid b/c they might not get --

we voted, what's the harm?

JF: will not be supporting this motion and not b/c of any fear

we deal with many, many contentious issues

many groups are pleased and others not pleased

and if we're not going to send every one that's contentious, why this one?

watching it on TV, reading in news......

MMgr: really purpose, format

we cd put something together more informative than a bylaw

notwithstanding that, purpose is to get input; we've had surveys

not sure we'd be able to get information out and answers back in time

RD: shd discuss in Tidings

Mayor: not sure enough room/material in Tidings, my only concern

MMgr: we cd do that; whatever Ccl wants to do wrt communication; pass this and can inform residents

surely intention of motion is to develop an edu prog

it has been the subject of discussion for some years, fair bit of news coverage

VD: as bylaw isn't coming into effect until a year from now, whether we pass it next week or the week after that, as long as it gets passed is the point

if you want people to comply, surely by consultation, bring people in early to the process..... here we are bringing it in sat first and second reading

we're doing two things, we're informing the people the bylaw is coming

Mayor: why not take the MMgr's suggestion as to a circular rather than a bylaw

VD: sorry, current bylaw is two to three pages; just needs to be put it into an envelope

haven't even got a budget for it

surely Ccl can afford stamps and send it out, easiest thing going -- what's the problem?

unanimously voted now arguing how to get it out

Mayor: concern, the vast majority of public not familiar with reading bylaws

sending the bylaw in its current form wd not have the desired result

want to stay with the original motion

VD: yes

JC: and wd have just that result

something unusual to receive wd read it but another little postcard, don't know if they wd read it; agree this wd be a better form

G-J: so pleased and proud of all mbrs of Ccl just passed [part 3], and fact CNV and DNV and City of Vancouver going to look at this next Monday

opportunity; if includes sending bylaw then by all means

probably best timing and impact is two three weeks from now when others.....

City of V has a whacking big budget;  want to work with them; real step forward

really want to work with North Shore

Sop: think it can be sent in future

staff is going to have to come up with an education program broader than in the past

a strategy and a budget

this is a major first; a wonderful thing happening here, for WV and rest of NShore and all of Canada to follow

let's have staff present us with an education program they've been working on

strategy and some dollars attached; gonna get everyone in compliance

SSch: for clarity: motion is a copy of bylaw be sent to every residence in WV

Mayor: as I recall

G-J: like tomorrow?

Mayor: Mr Leavers says he's going to have a meeting--

VD: within; uh when I say tomorrow, presume a bit more to fold them up and put them in envelopes

within two, three days

DL: we'll be mtg with other coordinators (two NVs) next week to talk about awareness and edu progs as well as roles and local initiatives

MMgr: believe Cclr VD clarified to say within week

MOTION FAILS

8:52

4.4       Development Permit Application 04-018 (4674 Clovelly Walk)

RECOMMENDED:

THAT Development Permit No. 04-018 (4674 Clovelly Walk) which would provide for a future two-lot subdivision with variances to site width for both lots and a variance to highest building face for the house on proposed Lot 1 be approved.

SJN: on agenda last week

one issue raised by Ccl -- whether to have a tree-cutting covenant adjacent to the road

you'll notice on the sheet before you two options

approve as currently drafted, alternative excluding provision for a tree covenant

concern whether such covenants shd apply on single properties

G-J: for clarification: recommendation this week reflect a shift from last week?

SJN: Cclr  Durman will be making the motion and has a choice of A or B

G-J: arrows indicate a choice

CR: thank you very much, Mr Mayor; just a point of clarification

Mayor: need your name and address

CR: Sorry. Carolanne Reynolds, Editor of West Van Matters, 1065 24th

CR: thank you very much, that's very helpful

8:55

VD: anyone, over the last fifteen years, will have observed I have fought for greenbelts

picture of myself [sic] and Mr info on front of NSNews went to bat against Mr Nicholls re loss of greenbelts many years ago on the Caulfeild Land Use Contract

since then got along b/c we have seen eye to eye on many issues

SJN interjecting:; believe we were on the same side on that issue as well

VD: I spent many many years fighting Ccl and staff  to preserve the greenbelt in the LUC out at Caulfeild

got trails,

never did agree with greenbelts on private property --

so LUC can have public trails going through them

greenbelt covenants on private property difficult to control

today Mr N just mentioned (when I spoke with him this afternoon) that a new staff member did not remember (but new so why expected) that when someone calls and asks can I cut down a tree -- the question is if on priv prop;  the answer is yes if on private property, but not on public property

only public land, sacrosanct

over the years I have always argued against the imposition of greenbelts on private property

Mayor: I'm going to ask you wch motion you're going to make, then discuss

VD: getting there b/c there is a choice public shd know

if you want, okay, I'll make it now

***MADE MOTION EXCLUDING TREE and LANDSCAPE COVENANT  ***

therefore in LUC of Caulfeild, adjoining bands through whole nbrhd, barriers of trees

these are two lots with a 30ft covenant proposed stuck on front

applicant has shown a great desire to retain the trees

if they'd gone the standard subdiv route and cd hv done, 80 trees wd hv bn removed; but desire retaining the gravel driveway, can keep 60 to 80 trees, went to trouble, therefore this is completely unnecessary

doesn't adjoin any other greenbelt

someone called me during the week saying we need to protect the greenbelt of Clovelly Walk

difference; Clovelly Walk to west of this, a gorgeous pathway with a major greenbelt all down one side, and yes we shd protect that; but this is Clovelly Walk with tarmac, and it is gorgeous ...  pristine; and the people who buy houses in that area like houses surrounded by trees, so not going to be pestering each other to cut trees down, and if they do, the owner can say no

see no reason to have covenant

Sop: for applicant to say we want to identify certain trees, save and work with M

using Chapman Surveying and our staff to identify, and in fact they removed some trees; they want to have this sense of trees, some 100 years

I lived there for some years

always intrigued me the amount of forested area in area; in Clovelly Walk in last remaining piece of prop in Land Use Contract; easterly end of that subdiv, surprise to everybody, when greenbelt provided was very, very sparse, thought it wd be significant barrier but very few trees in 50 to 75ft length

but I witnessed illegal removal of branches

Clovelly Walk and Road is a green forested area--

complies with wishes and if these people wish to comply --

if do something in future, wd ask M to help, not a major

applicant said wdn't mind covenant, work of staff, don't see anything wrong

G-J: covenant suggested by staff and accepted by applicant, think proposal is a show of good faith, tremendous

nbrhd probably grateful b/c a redevt that takes into account context and values of the nbrhd

really what most people in WV wd like to see and don't always see

for that reason, this applicant shd not have to be encumbered by a covenant b/c most people don't want their properties to be encumbered

JC:  agree with that stmt; think this applicant has shown remarkable responsibility and respect for the land and the property; said don't need it but wd go along with it

we'd be intruding

Sop: it's a two-lot subdiv, what happens to the trees in the other lot?

when they gave a portion of the prop to the M for ROW, was the intent to have infrastructure coming in centre, to prevent removal of trees, and that's why they/we gave extra property

SJN: very small, believe where common driveway

Mayor: little indentation

SJN: where they are common; haven't worked out exactly where the services are going

retaining wall so M can maintain it

very few trees on that part, expect significant ones to remain, main on big prop

Sop: so just greenbelt covenant public vs private land

SJN: and major portion of greenbelt is on western end of prop, in and around the existing gravel driveway

Sop: is greenbelt part of M ROW?

SJN: no, there is no greenbelt now

the pavement is on the M right-of-way; it's appox 31, 32 ft

PASSED

9:07

Mayor: Now, what most people are waiting for

before I ask Mr Leavers to speak to this, I want to take this opportunity to thank Cclr Ferguson for chairing this cmte....  meeting with virtually all of the cultural comnty and coalescing to a comprehensive report --

Ms Dexter, are you speaking?

OD: no

DL: Josie Chuback, Mgr of Cmnty Services

RECOMMENDED: THAT

1.         The Arts and Culture Strategy dated January 14, 2005 (Appendix 1) be adopted as the foundation for arts and culture development in West Vancouver.

2.         The recommendations identified in the strategy be approved.

3.         The priority actions requiring operating funds be approved and implemented on a phased basis in 2005 and 2006 as funding becomes available.

4.         Capital funds for facility studies and the Kay Meek Centre contribution from the Municipality, be approved for the 2005 budget year.

5.         Capital funding for the remaining projects recommended in the Strategy be included in the [Ten-Year] Year Capital Plan once the necessary planning and consultation work has been completed.

6.         Staff be directed to bring forward for approval, the policies on Special Events, and on Public Art and Municipal Art Collection.

7.         An Arts and Culture Strategy Implementation Committee be formed as a Select Committee of Council, to make recommendations on actions necessary for the implementation of the Strategy.

Josie Chuback: Strategy to 2010 and beyond

key essence is leadership

integrated planning and committing resources

public events, public art -- policy coming

winter festival in February wch will be broadened

cultural facility planning

funding, will be phased

wd like to go through the highlights of the strategy

we connect through celebration and collaboration

arts heritage and culture

growing starting in early 90s

we started in March, did inventory of what we were doing in cmnty

five values drove this process: quality of life and services/facilities; creativity and ####; understanding (with all groups); leadership (cmnty and Ccl); synergy

Ccl Leadership: expectation

build on our unique characteristics

improve communication, collaboration, and cooperation

facilitate environment of creativity

build the cultural economy

Strategies: shaping the future; fill gaps; current successes;

= fundamentals for action: Argyle Waterfront is the arts and heritage precinct

support, celebrate nbrhds

preserve cmnty historic sites (B C Binning house)

need to look at longterm plans to replace some facilities

= filling in the gaps

need to coordinate

look at ways of extending into other part of cmnty

structure of Parks and Cmnty Services; service delivery

need to work with non-profit partners, particularly with WVCAC

with new Cmnty Centre, look at opportunities

wrt 2010, focus on Winter Festival; work has already begun on that strategy

marketing

water/biking/walking routes

opportunities to partner, look for new opportunities

Special events, need to encourage and support them; policy; fund events

look at staffing for Harmony Arts and Ferry Bldg Gallery

keep up with surveys, sponsors

need to continue to work with Library, their BOOKtopia coming up

support use of Kay Meek Centre; contemplates matching funding; ensure cmnty access

a lot of potential; emerging leadership

next steps: Ccl leadership, commitment to begin, financial investment

Sop: want to congratulate Cclrs Ferguson and Goldsmith-Jones on this

been amiss for a number of years

RL: on capital side as Ccl knows we're currently involved in an exercise with you, finalizing ten-year longterm capital plan

current draft working on, provide provisions for culture strategy those funds wd likely come out of surplus prior year's funds  (that's where they're currently cited from)

{hm --

Sop: Appendix 2, p159 has  list $15, 17, 5, 31, 30, 17, 11, 1 (thousands), then $100K, so amounts combined that's $200,000 that we will find within this year's budget to meet this demand?

RL: my understanding is the actual strategy is to start out with a more modest amount 2005 and ramping up over the next three to five years reaching that ultimate amount

Sop: larger amts in ten-year capital plan, is that ramping it

RL: no, I'm talking about the operating funds that wd be required

Mayor's voice, I think, to clarify: operating

Sop: in $80K wd that include the full-time archivist?

MMgr: yes, on staged basis

wrt capital funding, that's subject to developing and coming to some agreement as to operating and governance guidelines

those discussions are underway

Sop: so this year $80K

Mayor: operating, conceivably, in that area

Sop: then after that, phasing, more dollars wrt operating, and then the Ten-Year capital plan will provide the outlook for future acquisition of dollars, to our commitment to Kay Meek and other --

what we've settled at this point as to parameters for this year's budget; we have $80K to work toward some of those operating costs; wd then reexamine wrt 2006 wrt remaining funding and priorities

wrt the capital amount for the Kay Meek Theatre, that's subject not only to an operating agreement but also to matching funding through grants and private donations

provision has been made in the draft ten-year capital for that capital contribution and we've made provision in this year's operational budget

provided Ccl supports it, move that forward for 2005

Sop: you know we were trying to keep taxes low; have needs for a lot of things

don't have a problem voting for this

Sop: full-time archivist to meet that demand, and want to make sure of the $80K it's included

also been reiterated in the arts and culture strategy

VD: $500K for Kay Meek for what is considered, the non, xxx?

JF: the studio

VD: so we need someone to step up to donate $500K to match ours

operating costs, working out whose with School Board?

proposal fixed now for five years at $500K per year, subject to annual review

just starting, so learning experience for all three parties; positive great contribution to arts cmnty

VD: our energy and money aimed at studio

Mayor and MMgr: yes

VD: big box is going to be the School Board's

Mayor: main theatre is Arts Centre Trust

VD: b/c over years this Ccl has been concerned about being drawn into subsidising (operating budget); easy to build capital projects

so if for studio, cmnty will get bang for it; so all in favour

Brian Hemingway: some of you may recognize me, been tapping you on the shoulder for many years

like others, want to applaud you

am sure you're all going to support it with applause

many are here, Friends of the Gallery, established some 18 months ago with two principals on our agenda: perpetrate, put pressure on all of you to pursue a direction for this cmnty, one of some esoteric substance, many have been identified; but the other item, after some study many of us believe due to the wisdom of those who went before you and due to the inordinate efforts of Ruth Payne, one of your staff who seers that gallery/those efforts--

I don't want to get into that other Arts Centre

but a proposal to perpetuate, extend,......cdn't be done better than in that Gallery

some of you have a modest proposal for expansion of that Gallery

urge all of you to get past nickel and dime I know you're burdened with, and explore the notion of this arts and culture future, the proverbial seed that will eventually grow without pesticides into an arts garden

consider not necessarily that proposal, there may be an alternative

sometimes takes a long time to get on with it

takes money

hope some will

majority of WVites do want to get something going for these Olympics

get something at Gallery will be first step to a sprint, not a walk

Jill McRae 2965 Rosebery: as an artist want to commend Mayor Wood for going down this path

fabulous direction to take and in full support

JF: wd like to thank all the cmte and Molly Murray of CSAC, incredibly loyal and showed up at all the mtgs with lots of good advice

[thanked staff, named them]

also want to thank all of the members of the cmnty, forums and workshops, who grabbed us and told us what they wanted in arts, culture, and heritage

really a great pleasure, finally see the ideas and plans, encouraged us

an intense and rewarding process

strategic plan will become cultural realities in next ten years

help us understand the programs presently offered

and to consider the benefits not just the quality of life

work with our plan, our OCP, our devt review plan

also will tie in with the 2010 Olympic Cmte wch I think has changed its name to the Cmnty Spirit Cmte

Mayor, G-J: not yet

JF: and with Parks, can see dovetailing; opportunity for partnerships also outside our cmnty

been an exciting and positive program that we've undertaken

value of arts, culture, and heritage

to see cmnty support

this will will do a lot for arts, culture, and heritage in our cmnty

G-J: really fun, really worth it

staff were challenged by us; a few tangles, all do-able

implementation cmte right away

significant policy, step for future; Kay Meek Theatre fitting in

hope this is a central piece in revitalization of Ambleside

build on all the successful events we've had

basic, let's fall in love with ourselves more than ever before

JC: comment on passion is pivotal to this discussion

really a no-brainer; ones you have of about same size tend to be known for that, eg Stratford

building on the passion and quality of life

doesn't take as much money; will be as much fun as working on it the last ten months

probably most emotional cmte work I've ever seen happen

went into this with full support for the concepts and spinoff benefits

jaundiced eye wrt costs; pushed hard for look at operating policy in place at Kay Meek and it's far improved

RD: add my congratulations

spent many years on arts and culture in WV and one of those fields not quite successful

pleased got it together, strategy bodes well for future

delighted progress funding, support of Kay Meek Centre, needs and deserves

hopeful we'll have our art gallery we've all dreamed of for years, have good art gallery but need more capacity wch will house more art, got a lot of artistic resources in WV

don't have means of exhibiting them

once we have facilities, will get donations, more support

become artistic centre

dreams finally going to be realized

Sop: if we look at archivist for $31,000, is remaining balance (of $80K), will we be moving forward fast enough in 2005?

ten-year capital plan, there will have to be some consultation, completion down road a bit

will include the larger numbers for the Kay Meek, matching grants, and facilities upgrade and development studies

assuming enough front money to get this program running

MMgr: we've developed the budget with the cmte

confident sig progress in 2005 and 2006

Sop: not to belabour this, where funds coming from?

are there funds available now?

MMgr: mentioned we've provided an envelope

when you look at some of the requests

some can be introduced later in year to cut costs down in 2005

we have been working with the cmte for ways to move this forward within the budget framework that we have.

VD: Mr Mayor, I want to congratulate you for your leadership setting up the cmte

and the cmte for finally formulating an integrated plan

what I really like about this is bringing together all the pieces

full knowledge not just saying nice things to this group, forgetting another, and then to another group

can really move forward

coalesce together put pressure on us to keep going; very exciting issue

to build on top

look at what the RFMP achieved, by citizens, superb

now we have a plan, put money in sensibly

to achieve

what we want more arts, in particular more public art

RD: add my sentiments to archivist

spent many years on Museum & Archives Cmet and Heritage Cmte

saw need first hand

provided training, they came and went [b/c part-time]

heritage and history are part of the arts and cultural fabric of WV

congratulate, full time archivist, trying for ten years to have and pleased to have it

9:51

RECOMMENDED:

THAT Phase 1 of the Proposed Housing Dialogue Program set out in the report from the Planning Analyst dated January 12, 2005 be approved.

SJN: recommending phase one; background studies; reports

second phase is called reexamining

trends, implications for longer term

will then be determining vision, now or new b/c of cmnty dialogue

phase one generation of reports, then can be seen

CR; thank you, Mr Nicholls has answered my main questions

Sop: are we examining density

traffic

heavy influence of the automobile

primary example if Evelyn Drive

wd this proposal provide for traffic initiatives

SJN: we very carefully drafted this report

one raised during OCP process was what are trends

on p 2 of this report: identified need for cmnty-wide dialogue on trends

process and without predetermined outcomes

[went over phase one]

Sop: don't see anywhere here how we're going to solve this problem

SJN: when dealing with population trends, people will be discussing traffic and services

MTG EXTENDED

RD: I read this report and I'll support the motion b/c I found it vague

talking about trends, generalities

in course of OCP we did a lot of these surveys: we know ageing

.....we don't need another study to tell us this

cd do more

need a cmnty dialogue

let's not spend another $150K to find out what we know already

MMgr: the three CEOs have been looking at this

can't just look at surveys as enough and trends

look at impact

try to create some pictures as to how it will affect them

only with that picture you can start a dialogue

create picture people can understand

JF in CHAIR-- Mayor had briefly left chamber

G-J: hope it's in a format dialogue

hold judgements

I'm going to support Phase One; will look for innovation as to how we have that dialogue

but thought housing in third phase here shd hv bn in first

issue wrt nbrhds, differences provide different needs and solutions

don't see how we get to nbrhd, that's when real.... wanting it to happen 'over there'

that will be the interesting discussion

JF: for DWV to enter into this without predetermined

hope all will bring the same objectivity

satisfy need of all of us

VD: hope this study, process

this is a two/three-year process

can see some people saying we shdn't do anything till we're through this in two years

had some say no change at all till process over

obviously devt applications will arrive and we will deal with them

10:05

5.         BYLAWS

5.1       Zoning Bylaw No. 2200, 1968 Amendment Bylaw No. 4409, 2004 (605 Clyde Avenue)

Sop moved second and third reading

5.2       Bylaw Notice Enforcement Bylaw 4368, 2004, Amendment Bylaw No. 4416, 2005

This Bylaw received third reading at the January 17, 2005 Council Meeting.

RECOMMENDED: THAT Bylaw Notice Enforcement Bylaw .... be adopted.

RB: expands the provisions, adjudication provisions

ADOPTED

Mayor: we've voted on it, it's adopted

Sop: I had my hand up.

Mayor: wish of Council?

6.         REPORTS FROM MAYOR AND COUNCILLORS

JF: GVRD mtg 9 till 2:45

providing sound working relationships with First Nations Groups

BC Treaty Commission and others there, history

important for public to understand treaties being negotiated throughout Lower Mainland

interesting to see how they play out

interaction between cmnties, nbrs; will mean a lot of change

find out as much as you can

BCTCl and LMTAC have their own websites

we're going to be living with

G-J: report on an Olympic

top tens for 2010; huge congruence between 2010 thinking and Arts and Culture Strategy

worked on our branding

small scale, village, volunteerism, ....spirit

that will be coming in about a month

JC: at Family Court and Youth Justice Mtg

vice chair is Kathleen Glynn-Morris from WV

came under some question as to activity and cost

last week a report tabled that was a joint effort (DWV, CNV, DNV); supportive, excellent news

a bit of a wake-up call

did our own internal audit

result far stronger functioning group of people

10:12

7.1       Correspondence [listed in previous WVM issue]

G-J: I registered to take the UBCM's env'tal conference

better relations on.... policy

VD: speak to Minister

8.         PUBLIC QUESTIONS AND COMMENTS

[VD leans over murmuring and JF says "Keynote Address" wch he echoes.]

Carolanne Reynolds:....

*A*******

before I ask my questions, one of the things about facts Ccl Durman brought up, I'd just like to point out that although some of the [M staff] documentation said .4% increase in population in WV, in fact if you go to the provincial research records on that, the [WV] population has been dropping for the last few years.  So that's just a little thing, and we shd get those facts straight

*B*******

want to add my congratulations to all of you on the arts and culture strategy

think it's absolutely fantastic

they were thorough; they went everywhere; they listened to everybody; just a marvel to behold, and the sort of public consultation that can be held up as an example for other things that you do.  It was really, really great.  Thank you very much,

however

*C*******

when Cclr Day was talking about needing an art gallery, a little light went on in my head.

When we're discussing the Wetmore site, I know that $5.6m that we paid for it has to go back to the Endowment Fund or whatever.  I think that, um, various realtors I've spoken to tell me that property's now worth perhaps [$8m to] $12m - $18m [even more depending on zoning/density Ccl gives], so it was a great move on your part --

Mayor: hope you're right!

CR: but --

Mayor: I don't think --

CR:  you shd look into it --

Mayor: something's wrong with those numbers --

CR: may be right, but the thing that's exciting about that, that occurred to me when I was listening to Cclr Day, is that wdn't it be marvellous to make the bottom floor an art gallery, b/c that's definitely a place that we go by.  If we make the bottom floor an art gallery, and make the top floors condos to pay for it, I think we cd get our art gallery, get it near the cmnty centre, and still have money left over

Anyway, that's just what I thought when you were talking about that [art gallery], I think that's exciting.

*D*******

Now, there were a couple of things that confused me this evening that I'd appreciate clarification

one is the budget, 2005.  As Cclr Soprovich mentioned [a supplemental] and we were told and it's a little, er we need clarification.  There were supplementals, there were no supplementals -- we heard both of those things --

Mayor: I think we shd clarify that right now

MMgr: As we prepared the budget in accordance with the target set by Ccl, we got to a position where there was no funds available for supplementals.  We addressed a number of one term [yes, he said term] issues as the final assessment numbers came in.  It was determined that we had some room and on that basis we allocated that room as it were for the arts and culture strategy.  It's a maximum of $80K and so whatever is going to be achieved in terms of recommendation of strategy, from an operating standpoint wd have to come out of that envelope.  That can be achieved within the existing target set by Ccl of 1.95% [tax increase]

CR: so in view --

Mayor:  within that 1.95 percentage

*E*******

CR: Right.  But it does seem to imply an area of some choice;

and also we haven't seen the Ten-Year Capital Plan yet, and all I'm asking is, will the revised budget and the new Ten-Year Capital Plan come out for the public to review for a couple of weeks before you pass it?

G-J: when?

and in terms of the operating budget, it has not changed since Ccl last saw it except for this $80K of assessment room, the MMgr referred to.

but those, as a reminder, those items will be brought back

Mayor: so nothing else has changed

G-J: do we know when the budget will be coming forward, roughly?

RL: I anticipate that we'll probably be looking at the Ten-Year Capital by a week today

Mayor: there is no mtg next Monday, so Feb 7th

G-J: and the operating?

Mayor: you're looking at the budget itself the 14th or 21st of February

RL: both at same time

MMgr: cd do them both at the same time

the interesting thing wrt the Ten-Year Capital, we may for example settle on with a great degree of confidence on what our spending plans are for 2005, and then allow greater time for cmnty discussion wrt the remainder of the Ten-Year Capital Plan

RL: the only difficulty with that is that technically the budget is a Five-Year Plan

We will have to adopt at least the first five years of the Ten-Year

Mayor: I'd encourage you, Ms Reynolds, to speak directly to Mr Laing, and I'm sure he'd fill in the blanks for you

CR: Right. uh, I just wd like to encourage Ccl to consider more than two weeks for that information to be public b/c not everybody can look at it in just a week

Mayor: just the Capital Budget you mean?
CR: whether it's the Capital Budget or the Operating Budget --

Mayor: but the Operating Budget hasn't changed as you've seen tonight

CR: Well, then the one with the change or whatever is all I'm saying, in view of process --

so, you know usually people say to me a week isn't enough and two weeks wd be better so all I'm saying is that if you can arrange two weeks, that wd be nice.  I know it doesn't have to be passed until May.

*F*******

CR: the other question was, and I didn't want to debate during the item that was there [earlier in ccl mtg], but the confusion is if you hold a Public Hearing and Public Meeting, at the same time, on the same subject, if someone then wants to speak, are you just going to assume that they're speaking b/c of the [Public] Meeting not the [Public] Hearing b/c that means the rule for the PH is that you cannot speak when it's closed, you cannot speak to Mayor and Ccl, but we've just found out tonight that at a PMtg, you can have public comment, how --

Mayor: Madam Clerk?

SSch: that is correct, and it is a little confusing.  We do get queries on that and try our best to explain.   When it has been clarified for Ccl in the past, when a [Public] Hearing and [Public] Mtg that have been held together have closed.  If subsequently members of the public wish to come back and address the Permit portion only, that has been permissible, but no discussion can occur subsequently on the bylaw portion

Mayor: is there anything in writing on that?

Cd we develop anything in writing on that and set that down?

two paragraphs?

Ssch:  We certainly cd, Your Worship.  It has been a long-standing practice wrt how public mtgs are held in WV and we can do that

Mayor: I think that wd be advisable.  Then people can just pick up the little two-pager or two-paragraph --

SSch: we'll put something together

Mayor: thank you

CR: Yes, that wd be helpful, thank you very much and since it's my first time up this year, Happy New Year to everybody!

Mayor: Thank you.

Michael Evison:  I may have the shortest question of the evening.

when is this third hearing on the pesticides? and will the public be allowed to speak?

Mayor: third hearing?

G-J: third reading

ME: reading

Mayor: there has been no date established for that
MMgr: normally it wd be the next mtg of ccl

Mayor: Feb 7th

ME: and are the public be permitted to speak?

Mayor: absolutely.

~10:20  ADJOURNMENT

I never saw a discontented tree. They grip the ground as though they liked it, and though fast rooted they travel about as far as we do.

                                -- John Muir, naturalist, explorer, and writer (1838-1914)

Rain! whose soft architectural hands have power to cut stones, and chisel to shapes of grandeur the very mountains.

                                -- Henry Ward Beecher, preacher and writer (1813-1887)

All art is autobiographical; the pearl is the oyster's autobiography.

                                -- Federico Fellini, film director, and writer (1920-1993)

+++++++++++++++  HAIKU  +++++  2005 January 27 ++++++++++++++

Multiple choice:

                                                Enjoy the rest of 2005!