Hope you enjoyed Thanksgiving -- we're so lucky to live here! Next ccl mtg is October 16, then b/c of UBCM in Victoria, the one after that is the 30th  (^v^).

Escaped to the Yukon for a few days -- it is glorious with gold flecks in the evergreens this time of year.

And the other good news?  pumpkin ale is back as the seasonal at Steamworks!  Yum!

=  UPDATES (WVS, LPPS); Calendar to Oct 20th; NOTES Sept 25 (the rest of....  ) and Oct 2nd Highlights (2089 Westdean debate); INFObits (Yukon Facts); Yukon Haiku; Quotations

= WEST VAN STREAMKEEPERS (results of AGM and Bd Mtg)

Hugh Hamilton continues his great work as President, Mike Ritter and Sandi Dix will share Vice President, Kurt Peiffer as Treasurer, Jeff Anderson as Secretary, with directors Barrie Adams, John Barker, Elizabeth Hardy, and Carolanne Reynolds.  Liaison reps from Wetland Partners and the Shoreline Preservation. For info, to join or to volunteer, pls call 628 1123 or write to streamkeepers@westvan.org

After two years as president, several years as a director and treasurer of the Society, David Foreman is leaving us, but will still support the society as archivist.  David's positive energy and encouragement have been invaluable in leading the Society forward.  We hope to see David at our membership events.  Ian Loudon, has agreed to replace David as treasurer.  Ian is long time resident and volunteer in the community.  He is also a retired accountant....thank you, Ian.

We also welcome to the Board of Directors, Alexandra Mancini and Aline Brown.  Alexandra and Aline are both loyal ivy pullers.  We look forward to their ideas and support.

The Vancouver Natural History Society recently recognized two members of our Society.  Katharine Steig received the Kaye & Charles Ney Award for exemplary service and dedication to VNHS.  Also board member, David Cook, received the Kay Beamish Award for his contribution to nature education.  Even though David is in high demand as an interpretive guide at several locations around the Lower mainland, he has voluntarily led many Sunday afternoon walks in Lighthouse Park.

To become a MEMBER of the Society, please contact Sheena Vennesland at 604-913-9272

Members are encouraged to contribute articles and photographs to the newsletter.  Submissions should be made to Elspeth Bradbury at 604-926-9390

 

KMC and Library at end, but first of all, over at the Ferry Building Gallery, Sept 29th - Oct 19th:

        Paintings and prints by Richard Tetrault; Furniture and metal work by Arnt Arntzen

West Coast artists Arnt Arntzen and Richard Tetrault will be exhibiting a series of new mixed media works inspired by the forms and function of Vancouver's bridges. This is their second show at the Ferry Building Gallery.  They have collaborated in several pieces in this exhibition that touch on the significance of bridges in a city that depends on them as a daily conduit. Throughout this series, facets of both the abstract beauty and the historic significance of bridges are present.

Individual and collaborative works range from a freestanding decorated screen, to tables and counters with integrated bridge architecture, to wall mounted paintings on panels. Elements of bridge architecture such as trusses, spans, rivets, and I-beams ground these works, at the same time as they allude to the elegant and vulnerable nature of bridges. In particular, the two artists have taken an interest in one historic incident, the collapse of The Ironworker's Memorial Bridge in June 1958. This catastrophic event appears in several collaborative pieces, making reference to the deaths of 19 ironworkers and rescuers. Beyond historic snapshots of the scene, however, the resulting screen and wall pieces look at the epic nature of this disaster and suggest its place as one of the most tragic in Canada's history. This event is captured in Tetrault's painterly handling, coupled with Arntzen's innovative synthesis in metal of underlying grid-structures.

~ 5- 7pm ~ FSTF still marching on at the Hall -- looking for more efficient/effective use of taxpayers' money!  Regularly meets on Tuesdays

~ 7:30am ~ WV Chamber of Commerce Breakfast Meeting at Hollyburn Country Club

Speaker: Joan McIntyre, MLA for West Vancouver - Garibaldi

Topic:  A Provincial Government Year in Review [details in last issue, call 926 6614 to reserve]

=  WV Community Foundation at Kay Meek Ctr

A FUN EVENING OF MUSICAL MEMORIES  with the Timebenders

6:30 No-Host Bar; 8pm Performance

With more than 20 costume incredible changes and the music from the 40s to the 90s, the Timebenders will take you on a Rock Down Memory Lane with an explosive and rollicking dance show that focuses on high energy, audience participation and lots of fun. Relive the music of the Andrew Sisters - Buddy Holly - The Beatles - Motown's Greatest Hits.... and many more!!

Tickets: $65 each which includes a chance to win a door prize worth $1000!

For tickets, please contact Charlotte or Delaina at 925-8153, weekdays between 9am and 1pm or by email at westvanfoundation@telus.net or visit our website www.westvanfoundation.com

=  Call to Youth Artists between 13 to 18 to design an ICON for DWV -- details were in issue 26; $100 honorarium; The closing date for submissions is October 13th at 5pm.  Submissions may be dropped off at 1538 Fulton, from Tues, Oct 10th to Fri, Oct 13th between 3 and 5 pm each day

= WV Museum (Gertrude Lawson House); special Hallowe'en event starts at 7pm; visit www.westvanmuseumblogspot.com or call 925 7295 for more info on activities (exhibit to Oct 31)

~ 9 - noon ~ Restoration Planting by Lighthouse Park Preservation Society

Assess the results of last fall's planting and continue planting along Beacon Trail.  If you would like to help, please wear work gloves and bring a shovel if you have one, otherwise we will provide tools.  Meet at the upper kiosk in the parking lot.

~ 9am - 1pm ~ Gleneagles Cmnty Ctr Garage sale

~ 10am - noon ~ Clovelly-Caulfeild Working Group Mtg (Open to local residents) at Caulfeild Elementary

THEN

Monday 16th, ccl mtg; Tues 17th Civic Youth Strategy Working Group at 3:45 (to 5:15) at Srs' Ctr, FSTF at 4:30 at MHall;  Wed 18th BofV and Library Bd; Thurs 19th NSFamily Court & Youth Justice at 5:30 at CNV MHall; Oct 23rd ccl mtg cancelled/moved to Oct 30

Free Public Lecture -- The "Affordability by Design Public Lecture" features Karrie Jacobs who speaks on "The Perfect $100,000 House - A Search for Great Affordable Housing". This lecture is part of the Affordability by Design Workshop/Conference on October 20, which features an exciting list of speakers. The conference focuses on affordable housing solutions.

For info, pls contact Frank Pacella (Program Assistant, The City Program, Simon Fraser University, 2300-515 West Hastings), phone 291.5254; www.sfu.ca/city/

The Gallery at the Library Presents...

Gerard Picher and Francoise Vallotton-Stegemann, October 1-31

Celebrate harvest time.  Enjoy the bold images and rich colours of field, orchard and garden.  Please join us for the artists' opening reception hosted by the Friends of the Library.  Everyone is welcome.

Friday, Oct 6, 6:30 - 8 pm

AUTHOR VISIT: Oct 10, Thursday, 7:30 - 9 pm, Peter J Peters Room

Meet Sandra Harper, author of Inside Kenya -- Creating Tomorrow.  Her book is an anthology of personal stories about the men and women who have emerged from their peasant lives into careers that influence and support others.

READERS' CAFE:  Tuesdays, Oct 3 and 17, 10:30am - 12:30 pm, Peter J Peters Room

Join Joe Ronsley for a reading and discussion of James Joyce's "Ulysses".  Please bring your own copy of the book.

CALL to ARTISTS: if you wd like to display in the gallery, on Oct 14 Saturday submit works (for consideration) 9 - 11am; info at www.westvanlib.org or call 925 7407

Lots going on!

Oct 10 Company B and Schubert with Ballet BC; and Oct 12 "Shear Madness", Arts Club on tour

At KMC Studio Theatre: After "Bolloxed" by Theatre Tart from the Fringe Festival on Sept 30; "Black and White with a Touch of Colour", a showcase concert presented by platinum-award-winning composer/pianist Kenneth N. Johnson, with special guest vocalists, dancers, and an eight-piece orchestra.

VOLUNTEER!  For more info, call 981 1175; email info@kaymeekcentre.com; or fill out the short form on the website www.kaymeekcentre.com

                Cclr Day absent

7:04  APPROVAL OF AGENDA 

added letter re 2142 Argyle; several letters, 4769 The Highway; 8.1 cancellation of Oct 2 Cmte of Whole, reg mtg (instead)

Sop: may I vote only on the Ccl mtg

Mayor: how?

SSch, MClk: will note that in minutes

[Mayor split motion]

SJN: Ccl asked staff to bring forth report on Option C, that report is on your agenda now

VV: think it's valuable to move from the 350 option to this 300

Cclr Smith has raised a good point; don't nec move the max

350 max for traffic so doesn't allow safety/extra margin or market/rental props to be added later

leaves us an option

valuable to keep this at 300 if only 350 av b/c moving in right direction though not my preference

MS: we have to respect those ppl chose to live here in the first place

not acceptable to find the straight rezoned when you have no vote and haven't asked for rezoning

find yourself living on a straight, boarded up houses

traffic a concern, TWay and MDrive total gridlock now

proposed road coming out on Keith is a challenging site, two roads converging there

public mtg we went to that half favoured Option B and half C so made sense to split the difference

if accepting the Spaxman report in its entirety, why have public hearing?

if process, why public hearing?

Mayor: town meetings, considerable difference

MS: town meetings.

also recognized the reality of the situation

Option C got four votes; has to be accepted

change C now is like getting horse to run backwards; think accept C and move on

JF: somehow or other, this number, Spaxman pulled out of air but not so; much time spent, carefully thought out; consultant with 40 years in the business; brought forward recommendation.

Four years on OCP, enormous need for options in housing

number of presentations of more affordable housing, options make life easier for seniors to accommodate wheelchairs, etc

also the majority of the residents were in favour of selling their houses

talked about from outset changing to multifamily housing

not three ppl who came forward

huge effort, great deal of public consultation

someone said to me, if this area can't be redeveloped for multifamily, where can?

VV: I wd like further clarity

Cclr F has referred to rental housing, etc and talk of Canterbury housing -- so I want to know if, when talking of 350, are they within that 350, so we take out market housing from the 350 or added on?

350 is maximum that can be done with that one road connection, more needs another road connection; how is this housing to benefit?

Mr Spaxman has set it out as market housing, 1000 sq ft and now at $1K per sq ft

VV: so we don't know what is coming

how many market subtracted from total

if we had Option B you have some wiggle room

you have a gentleman who spoke and wanted his zoned same but we cd not do that, cd not accommodate all those options; going to come up with impossibilities

Ms Boyle's report to Ccl, staff recommends based on Town Hall mtg Option C

I don't know how that came about -- petition? in effect until the next Town Hall Mtg?  I think ppl wd like clarification

Ccl might want to rescind

Didn't get names of those who wanted to speak, I apologize for that

JC: don't understand discussion since this is just for receipt.

Cclr F has pointed out report, amenities; think we shd call receipt and go forward

MS: 300 vs 350, I was prepared to support to majority of Ccl but debate so now speaking

350 is absolutely maximum -- why always go for the maximum?

suppose they're out by 15%?  then find we've a problem, no wriggle room

all ppl on Keith, etc

why maximum, no one's ever explained that to me

say to myself, outside looking in

I've never met anyone [who cared] whether I make a profit or not

[applause]

most great fortunes in real estate and if M's mandate is to ensure a devpr makes a profit, that explains that

[applause]

Mayor: order in the gallery

[and reason B;] Planning Commission and others want D and E

JF: Point of identification (?)

[RECEIPT CARRIES]

Mayor: now I'd like to hear from mbrs of public

Hakan Telenius, Millstream Rd: will yield my minutes to next speaker who has more to say

think we've missed the whole point

I agree need for housing options

spent a lot of time talking about these units when thousands will be developed south of here (Sq Pk Royal); spend more time working with them

wrong by a factor of ten at least; shd be focusing on what's coming down the road

happy to be on the cmte and happy to be on another

I respect Millennium's abilities to develop and as owner

Wd like to read my email in June to Ray Spaxman wrt his report

the cmte agreed of 350 units, and density of .74

I preferred Option B or something between B and C

another 255......I don't remember anyone saying that

 then you got several maybe three more saying option B

fully respect he cd recommend what he wants but you have four mbrs who did not

by saying the cmte agreed, you're incorrectly referring you had....

I did this at quarter to one in the morning but it was my.... .

Spaxman, he can say whatever he wants

[but] how can he misrepresent!

Thursday June 8 final mtg; at that time Ray S did not say he had come to any recommendation

he went round and asked each preferred, group was bimodal

final report was only circulated on weekend

I asked can I see that report; no you can't, and

good news that he did send it to us

never a page inserted that group preferred Option C

of course we want consensus; you did have consensus, ppl at B and at C

move on B I will, move on B; ev report has shown you that

don't need to be very creative

David Stephenson 836 Esquimalt: difficult to follow Philip

thank you for opp to be part of Guidance Cmte

when some significant financial flaws as to wch viable and wch not

ppl who have spoken survey PWV, Sentinel Hill -- preference below Option C

we shd be v diligent, not max out density and traffic too early in the process

Hank Jasper, Gen Mgr of Millennium, lives in Vancouver: been with this devt for probably three years

VV: not clear

Mayor: to rescind last week's

VV: I'll move

MS: I'll second; Cclr Day's not here

we have to accept will of majority

Mayor: think this sends a message to Millnm

benefit will be network of roads pathways, etc

thank you for the add'l information; think it sent a strong message

7:51

SJN: worked out a series of proposals so can go forward.

Intent: net benefit to cmnty

This is to advise Ccl; Ccl mbrs can attend the mtg but report will go to Ccl after the mtg(s)

A number of the Working Cmte are here in the gallery if any questions.

Sop: some of the guiding vision; not involved in DP process; absolutely a visionary piece of work

looks like right road to follow in that beautifully treed area; hope we can work on something to keep that heritage area

JF: interested in hearing from some mbrs of the cmte if they wish to speak; and what the neighbours wd have to say; better to speak/ask questions after the mtg?

SJN: this group has gone through a lot of work; pleasure to work with them; chair unable to make it but vicechair, Kim Stephens here

JF: if designated as a DP area, are they aware extra work/costs involved?

Mark Thompson: with Design company, designed this

have worked extensively with the nbrhd trying to produce plans that are both of the nature of the area (eclectic), been described as heritage but really eclectic design homes

have had one or two nbrs who have objected strongly but have looked

started on this the beginning of the year and here we are in Nov

Mayor: September

MT: seems that long, thought ten weeks; enormous costs in carrying cost of property for nine months

Mayor: this is just for setting a date; assume nbrs will be notified

SSch: yes

8:11

Sop: why no DP?

Mayor: no notification

SJN: part of a larger piece of property owned by BC Hydro and they asked subdivided some year ago

Chairlift Place; 2.5 upa

asked no more than three per acre

determined not needed so they sold it; tail end of a process

this area is a mandatory devt area b/c adjacent to creeks and b/c multifamily

no envtal issues, drainage going through the site

where nothing to be regulated then Ccl may waive requirements for a DP.

Sop: from Chairlift Place

SJN: to cul de sac

Sop: then

SJN: then existing lot 4

Sop: so roadway through lot 15 part of parcel?

SJN: already exists

Sop: through to line of prop

SJN: yes

8:14

JF: I'll second for discussion -- can we add that they not take place on a Saturday

Haebler in biz since 1959, good reputation, hope to have it in WV; whole idea is to finish within dates

13.  Correspondence for Action and Information [Complete list in previous issue as part of agenda]

Sop: has been a fair amt of correspondence about an existing daycare probably providing great service to this cmnty and acquisition for adjoining prop for extension to daycare

- have been three attachments to the existing house; before BofV and passed

- second bldg dots prop line and new house, third bldg;

No 2 and 3 I've heard have no permit

The Bd of Health have outlined 20 children in each category; haven't heard how many in 707

heard desire to increase by eight and another 20 across the street

This Ccl wd give permission for a change in use

feel a lot of correspondence that we shd hv been privy to prior to this point

traffic at Anderson and TWay -- are we turning a residential area into commercial?

we have the right to give the licence to the second daycare?

depts at City Hall, this letter, that letter.

Mayor: we shd ask [Mr X] what the process

Mayor

RB: notification being given to residents

SJN: assume being handled by Mr Beauchamp, we'll notify

Sop: read there were two categories, one daycare and one infants and required Ccl

SJN: we'll provide clarification

Oct 10 Ballet BC

Oct 12 Arts Club performing Shear Madness -- longest non-musical play in N Am

Mayor: all day Saturday with police Bd on policing session

entire bd was there, only one prov all there

type of changes we've made wrt transparency have been noticed

glad said using a lot or your ideas

your Police Bd is working hard to be current

most members of cmnty concerned about billboards, talking with Sq, thank cmnty for patience

thirdly -- GVRD debate on Friday

ended up being quite a lengthy discussion

generally supporting Gateway program

but cautioning we want to work cooperatively with Min within Livable Strategy; seems to contradict

Cclr Anton introduces an amendment, that the bd strongly opposes, twinning of Port Mann though we know city of V and New West opposed, rest given assent and done a lot to massage

that was a surprise

her amendment passed 54 to 52

N and S perimeter roads

know Cclr Smith might have something to add

I added: convene a group representation on Gateway prog and that went forward

ongoing

MS: certainly do have a comment; time we address this whole issue, TransLink

VV: wd love an evening set aside for a more full discussion for the possible ramifications of this

gather that the reasons at the back globalization; manufacturing gone to India and China and we have an opp to triple shipping containers -- have to be unloaded onto trucks

need another million popn in BC

15 years to triple imports to port and 20 - 25 years popn

cost of construction has gone sky high

everything overdone -- did someone say doubling not tripling, half a million, not million

if we go along with those ideas than why stop twinning bridge

got to get a grip on growth

want opp so when we object it's consistent and coherent

understand Cclr Smith's objection, jammed up, shd hv done something before at this state.

Mayor: good idea

JC: findings reported $700m to move goods around Lower Mainland and it has doubled in the past five years and growing faster

400K cars idling ev day, stopped at stop light; traffic tied up by police

agree with Cclr Smith completely and GVRD is wrong.

MS: shd we send a strongly worded letter saying we strongly support

Mayor: then cd knock Min Falcon over with a feather

been our position; we cd write a letter that fits in with the GVRD letter

Perhaps Mr Barth, you and I can work on that.

8:55

= 8:55 PQP -- your bedraggled Editor, was not going to speak but felt compelled to point out:

16.  ADJOURNMENT  8:58

                        Cclr Day still absent

If I heard or remember correctly the three top places in WV for accidents are: Lions' Gate Bridge, Marine Drive and Taylor Way, Upper Levels (No 1 Hwy) and TWay

There'll be an active Police program unmarked vehicles focusing on aggressive drivers

Challenge to Ms throughout BC and place with fewest accidents gets a $35K grant

> Delegation and powerpoint by Volunteer North Shore from NShCmnty Resources re NSh Festival of Volunteers wanting $500 for event in February (referred to Cmnty Services).

> 7:23 DVP for 2446 Halston will be considered Oct 16

It was unusual for there only to have been a week's notice -- look how long for a DVP above, it's usually some weeks or a month yet this was on agenda last week!  Many objections were raised by the public and by Ccl.  Turns out the 'heritage' house being 'retained' had been greatly altered, possibly only original left wd be the oval driveway!  All nbrs not in favour.  V short notice and wd rather have two 80ft lots than a 50ft on their street.  Ye LongTime Surveyor Bill Chapman said cdn't tell nbrs about application until report to Ccl but SJN pointed out that in fact staff encourages applicants to talk to the neighbourhood about their proposal BEFORE making an application.  Good news is that they decided to defer the matter and have a staff report.  Information in NSNews incorrect: the bylaw has not yet been passed.

> 8:09 for 2007 Permissive Tax Exemptions introduced and read a first, second, and third time.

> 8:10 CONSENT AGENDA ITEMS  --  Reports and Correspondence

= Affordable Housing Update and Homelessness Awareness Week

= Discussion: Hollyburn Ridge Cabin Transfer - #244 so will be report on policies and price ("negligible"); pace and kind of devt in WV plus potential for more with existing zoning also, so a report asked for

> Report on  2006 North Shore Heritage Weekend (staff mbrs must include NV) ~ 8:21

... report from the Sr. Community Planner and the Heritage Services Curator on the 2006 North Shore Heritage Weekend be received.

> 8:22 CORRESPONDENCE: only one letter discussed, that of a contravention of the noise bylaw that's been horrific for two years in spite of many bylaw enforcement attempts.  Ed Guy is chair of his strata Ccl and suggested the District levy a fine as legally allowed to do since the owners apparently have ignored everything to date and the noise may reach an ear-splitting 95 decibels (the bylaw allows 50dB, and each bel increment is ten times the previous, but measured in decibels wch are a tenth of a bel; at 85 hearing loss occurs).  CAO said they'd report back and wd take 'whatever' action.

> 8:29 REPORTS FROM MAYOR AND COUNCILLORS

= JF said to keep Oct 14 in mind; Library will be closed for a rededication -- new entrance, new brass plaque, Royal Cdn Legion Colour Parade, Legion support

= The Mayor said a press release had been issued to clarify 'amalgamation' reports.  In short, cooperation, team player, but no amalgamation.  See: WV Supports Service Delivery Efficiencies, Not Amalgamation at http://www.westvancouver.ca/article.asp?a=4695&c=677

=  Didn't really hear this all that well but something about GVRD voting an increase in their stipends -- to $250 per mtg.  The Mayor said she was not there but was surprised it passed with majority.  MS, wondered how long we'd let GVRD spend our money when we only have one vote.  The directors are paid by their Ms so it's like double-dipping to get it from GVRD as well.  The Mayor said the inordinate number of mtgs bothered her more than the stipend and they're going on a retreat.  DWV will send letter supporting Mayor's statements advocating restructuring to improve functioning (JF's suggestion).  MS continued about their dipping into our property tax, not acceptable, not happy getting ripped off.  The Mayor pointed out "we do have just one vote but we do have influence", and the CAO "we are going to discuss at UBCM re GVRD assessments and how arrive at figures" (UBCM is in Victoria this month).

>  8:37 -- NO PUBLIC QUESTIONS AND COMMENTS  so  ADJOURNMENT

===  INFObits  ===   btw, Yukon means 'great river' in Gwich'in.

*   Up to  200 people died shooting the Miles Canyon and Whitehorse rapids. The rapids were named because the spray resembled the manes of a herd of white horses. The rapids are now dammed, but the City  of Whitehorse retains the name.

1--

2--

3--

4--

Haiku from 2006 Sept 29 / Oct 4 in the Yukon

1

Sept 30

Miles Canyon: on purpose deep for both teal and water; upwellings perhaps from hitting rocks below surface near cliffs

2

Oct 1 - along the highways -- Alaska, Robert Campbell, Klondike

3

Oct 1 (written Oct 4)

Quiet Lake, along (South) Canol Road

choices between broken and shattered, and between cry and call but cry wins in latter case b/c of assonance; broken for alliteration in former or shattered for assonance (lake's water like glass, shattered by); image is from top to bottom of picture

4

Oct 1 (written Oct 4)

just past Johnson's Crossing going north on South Canol Rd -- must have been quite high b/c only place with snow

----

btw, saw a good but short play, The Hat Trick, in Whitehorse -- theatre is alive and kicking in the Yukon!

It takes a certain maturity of mind to accept that nature works as steadily in rust as in rose petals.

                        -- Esther Warner Dendel, writer and artist (1910-2002)

No pessimist ever discovered the secret of the stars, or sailed to an uncharted land, or opened a new doorway for the human spirit.

                        --  Helen Keller

The pessimist complains about the world;  the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails.

                        --  William Arthur Ward

On October 11, 1884, Eleanor Roosevelt was born in New York City.  She was the niece of Theodore Roosevelt.  Eleanor married her distant cousin, Franklin Delano Roosevelt, in 1905.  During their early years together, she raised five children and played the role of the devoted political wife, helping FDR become a US senator, governor of New York, and US President.  During the 12 years of FDR's presidency, she became the first activist First Lady, championing numerous social causes and holding regular White House Press conferences for female correspondents.  After FDR's death in 1945, President Truman named her a delegate to the United Nations, where she was instrumental in drafting the 1948 "Universal Declaration of Human Rights".  She authored some memorable metaphorical quotations:

"A woman is like a tea bag--

        you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water."

"Probably the happiest period in life most frequently is in middle age, when the eager passions of youth are cooled, and the infirmities of age not yet begun; as we see that the shadows, which are at morning and evening so large, almost entirely disappear at midday."

And some fabulous "Words to Live By" thoughts:

   "No one can make you feel inferior without your consent."

   "You must do the things you think you cannot do."

   "When you cease to make a contribution, you begin to die."

   "It is not fair to ask of others

        what you are not willing to do yourself."